Right on dude. The only thing I would say besides "ditto" is that his particular complex and mature spirituality will not mean much to fundamentalists that abhor global imperialism or global holarchy evolution (depending on how you want to look at it...). They will just say he is faking it, or not a true member of Islam (for the example of Islamic fundamentalism in relation to his mature spirituality). Otherwise, I would also say he is the only one who sounds like a President. Cuz I know you love that aesthetic realm....

excellent reasons! esp. #4 and #5. but what about his policies and leadership qualities? check out this analysis by Steven Kirsch on why Edwards is the guy.
see: http://www.skirsch.com/politics/president/comparisonFull.htm

in any case, if Obama bags the primaries then Obama it is :)

~C

btw, for those who are interested, there is an insightful parallel discussion on this topic at Integral Options Cafe. check it out.

~C

With all respect , I would have thought those with a 2nd-tier perpective would be looking a little deeper than what Obama has so far presented. At this point, he has proven to be no more than a classic empty - albeit stylish - suit, mouthing feel-good "motherhood" statements with no grown-up explanations of silly things like HOW??
It is disturbing that so many smart and deep thinkers are being taken in by preacher's rhetoric, therefore sparking their own wishful thinking, regardless of the realities on the ground.
What is important is what actually works, and although Mr Obama has brushed them off and shined them up, the ideas he sells are at least 40 yrs old and already proven detrimental to the cause of those they claim to help. The packaging is attractive, but the underlying impetus is immature and adolescent at best, politically cynical and self-aggrandising at worst.
Mr Obama's record - as little of it as there is - speaks to a highly partisan and politically cowardly character ( in direct conflict with how he speaks and presents his ideas on the campaign trail), and definitely not someone with 2nd-tier sensibilities. He may talk the talk, but he most definetly has never walked the walk - don't be fooled just because you want it to be true.

I'm just getting in to who's who and what's what in this election...today I happened to listen to KW's Myriades 1 Interview (excellent non-academic summary of IT BTW). In part 3, KW reaffirms that Bill Clinton and Al Gore are integral politicians, having publicly praised Integral Theory...Is Obama aware of Integral? Can we assume that Hil knows what Bill knows? Should that not count for something?
Also, I was disappointed that Obama's NH and Iowa speeches were given a la teleprompter, not off the cuff as it appeared...

I,m sure KW would agree that being aware of something - even praising it - does not indicate whether or not one actually understands, let alone IS that thing.
The fact that 2 politicians praised something - with no political downside to them - is astonishing!!
Regardless of what people say - especially politicians/activists with an agenda/power structure to sell - is of little use. It is their actual black & white plans and actions on the ground that reveal their core thinking and approach.
A few of the key indicators of 2nd Tier thinking are 1)A transcending of ideological orthodoxy, and therefore the willingness to approach each situation with the appropriate tool/system, based on actual results, regardless of the ideological fallout and 2)A recognition of systems/networks - (offical & unofficial), whose capabilities & power can be nurtured and utilised to acheive in ways that have not yet been seen and 3)An understanding of the factors/systems holding the spiral together, the processes and their institutions that most effectively allow persons to move through the spiral & to be who they need to be- and therefore never taking positions that undermine or destroy those same processes, etc.
Bill, Hill, Al & Barry don't demonstrate these first 3 items (among many more) AT ALL. As mentioned in a previous post - they are still trotting out 40yr-old idealogies that have ALREADY PROVEN insufficient to the tasks they set themselves.
INTEGRAL? HARDLY.

Liberals want to be your Mommy.
Conservatives want to be your Daddy.
Libertarians just want to treat you like an adult.

I’m disappointed that this “opinion” is coming from Integral Life. I find it premature and on many levels, quite honestly, inappropriate.

The question we all need to ask is....Who is the real Obama? He puts on the MLK mask when he speaks before Blacks and then the JFK one when he’s in front of Greens. I think MR’s narrative is speculative at best and although I empathize with his feelings, his writing easily shows his own personal, wishful thinking, or rather personal projections coming through. That’s definitely not second tier thinking!!!!

Obama is clearly a “Bargainer” (see Shelby Steel’s new book: “A BOUND MAN” and/or click http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01112008/watch2.html to watch this most recent interview.) We have no idea who this man really is and I would bet, neither does he. He’s been wearing too many masks throughout his life of grasping…a life where choosing to be a “player” has paid off well. Although it has brought him great success (as it does with any consummate politician) it has also put him in a place of “fence sitting” and that’s exactly where Bargainers find themselves.

Although I have not made up my mind who I will vote for, if I want clarity in a candidate, I can look to John Edwards as a good example. He tells you how he feels about a particular issue and how he would respond and implement a procedure towards correcting it. That doesn’t make him likable to everyone, but it sure makes him more evolved on the spectrum than most others running.

As an example, someone like Al Sharpton (who doesn’t wear different masks depending upon who he talks to) can be referred to as a “Challenger” because he stands his ground and thus is definable by his actions. You know who you are talking to when you speak to a Challenger. I think asking the question…“Will the real Obama please stand up?” is a terribly appropriate one. And so I want to know how Obama feels with particulars about how and where he wants to "take this country?" What are his REAL, concrete fiscal plans? Is he for or against building a wall between us and Mexico? Does he support raising taxes and if so, how and why? We don’t know these particular things because he is too busy tiptoeing around trying to get votes. With words like Change and Courage, he excites but leaves us empty because of his little substance.

Sorry Matt, but your early decision to “out" yourself is at best, inappropriate specifically because of the position you hold and the influence you have. Making a political choice the way you did it at this stage of the game and is not integral.

I can’t stop hearing KW say…”If you’re at teal, speak teal. Don't dumb down your message to blue!” Well Matt, it’s obvious to me that Obama speaks everything green and below and does it well purely because it serves him. Quite frankly, that’s solid first teir and not good enough for me. It certainly doesn’t make for the right leader of our nation.

At this specific time in history, coming out of deep deceit, lies, manipulation and “perpetual spin” I think we deserve clarity and with it, a leader who has a more worldcentric perspective…don’t you?

aqalpsych,

I agree that Obama’s Individuated-Reflective (or higher) faith--to use James Fowler’s term--will never be good enough for fundamentalists of any kind, at home or abroad. My specific point was I do think the fact that Obama can coherently speak from his level of faith, do so sincerely, and still be taken seriously in the public arena and in political discourse at least has the potential to let some of the pressure out of the pressure cooker.

And I also agree with you that “he is the only one who sounds like a President.” That’s the “state argument” for voting for Obama: gravitas.

~C,

Thanks for the Kirsch link. While I appreciate some of the data that he compiles, there’s his not so subtle message of “Vote for Edwards or we’re doomed!” in the context of his (i.e., Kirsch’s) intense focus on climate change. But, to Edwards’ credit, he’s “set the domestic policy agenda for the entire field,” which, in the words of Ezra Klein at The American Prospect, has forced Democrats “to argue for, and commit to, a much broader and more inspiring agenda than we otherwise might have seen."

logoaustralis,

I don’t doubt that there’s a lot of shadow hugging and boxing going on with Obama, with some elevating him as a political savior and others reducing his approach to mere political conmanship. Obviously, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. And you’re right, it is “preacher’s rhetoric,” but I don’t necessarily see that as a negative. (Click here.)

You write that Obama's record "speaks to a highly partisan and politically cowardly character." There's nothing "politically cowardly" about Obama not authorizing the invasion of Iraq in the first place, nor is there anything "partisan" about working with Republican senators like Richard Lugar, Tom Coburn, and John McCain.

prickles,

Let me first say that this opinion isn't coming from Integral Life or AQAL: Journal of Integral Theory and Practice. This was my opinion, and thus it comes with the standard disclaimer, “the opinions expressed herein are solely my own and not those of the aforementioned organizations or publications.”

So there's nothing "inappropriate" about my post of why, at this time, I'd vote for Obama, primarily because I don't speak for AQAL: Journal of Integral Theory and Practice or Integral Life. If anyone does, its Sean Esbjorn-Hargens (executive editor of the journal) and Robb Smith (CEO of Integral Life), respectively. As a result, my AQAL-informed opinion as to who I'd likely vote for now and why is not tantamount to any of those publications/organizations “endorsing” a candidate for president.

Also, I don’t see Obama “putting on masks” or being a "Bargainer" in Steele's sense but rather espousing a “both/and politics” and being a "Negotiator" between different policies, interest groups, and identities. I think Andrew Sullivan sums this up nicely: “To be more than one thing and sometimes not fully anything—this is an increasingly common experience for Americans, including many racial minorities. Obama expresses such a conflicted but resilient identity before he even utters a word. And this complexity, with its internal tensions, contradictions, and moods, may increasingly be the main thing all Americans have in common.”

And if Obama "speaks everything green and below and does it well," as you say, to me that would suggest a developmental perspective (e.g., Teal) complex enough to inhabit, empathize, and ultimately speak from those First-Tier stages.

It is disappointing and sad to me that integral thinkers are actually considering politicians like Obama and Clinton as valid or appealing options, especially JUST because they might be perceived as integral thinkers themselves. Obama offers nothing more than empty platitudes and rhetoric and doesn't even demonstrate an understanding of the problems this country and the world are facing. He openly talks about war with Iran and bombing Pakistan, and you want to give this guy the Integral thumbs up?

I thought the integral community had on some level extricated the brainwashing and propaganda that this culture perpetually programs us with, but it is apparent from this article that I am incorrect.

Not even a mention of institutionalized corruption and the resulting cultural shadow. Please, please, please wake up people. Do some research on google and youtube and find some information that's not coming from a propaganda outlet (aka your TV).

Hi Matt (and All),

I enjoyed reading the article you suggested in your first post, Andrew Sullivan's "Goodbye to All That". I'm wondering if you or others have additional reading recommendations on presidential candidates from an integral perspective?

Thanks kindly! Colleen S.

And Bush's Presidency has failed due to his inexperience.

Obama supporters will doubltess enjoy comparing him to JFK, but JFK's Presidency lurched from one near disaster to another. Obama reminds me more of Jimmy Carter, another President who failed while in office.

All the feel good rhetoric in the world won't hide the fact that fundamentally flawed is the worst fundamentalism of all. Particularly on the world stage.

1. We need someone other than a Clinton or a Bush in the Whitehouse (that's all we've had for the last 20 years).

2. Hilary - although I have a lot of respect for her, she's still too much of a political creature, similar to Bill. I do believe that she has sincerity and integrity but I think she's too tied in to the political structure to really change things.

3. Rwanda - I was a huge Bill Clinton fan but this whole situation has caused me to look at him differently. He was the most powerful man in the world and did little or nothing. 800,000 people lost their lives and the only thing he could do was apologize after the fact. That apology may have been sincere but it won't bring back any of those 800,000 people.

This is what I meant when I said that Bill and Hilary are political creatures. They're concern is about elections and perceptions...not necessarily about doing what's right. Although I do believe they did a heck of a lot better than the bonehead Bushies.

4. Barack Obama - incredible, smart, charasmatic, fresh, young, different perspective, and hopefully squeaky clean (we'll see). Audacity of Hope - by Barack Obama (read it).

5. John McCain may be a war hero but so is my father. That doesn't mean my father should run the country. John McCain is a long-time adulterer (even before this article came out-- do we really want another president who can't keep it in his pants), a "flip-flopper" ("we shouldn't torture prisoners....changed my mind....let's torture prisoners"), and an overall boring person.

those who need to be led will forever be lost. i wonder if following another in the hopes of being led is akin to treating the disease with the symptoms? or perhaps one should continue to follow the leaders... i mean look at the worlds they have created so far. so many to choose from..... one even has an 'integral vision' to follow now. ah the pleasure... so much to follow. so many choices. follow the leader. you follow the leader now.... go on. they will lead you to where you want to go. it's ok. just follow the leaders. follow the leaders. follow the leaders. go ahead boy. that's a girl. you can do it. follow the leaders. come on..... that's it. you're doing great! keep it up. in the end the leaders will have a nice treat for you. come on... come on.....