Father Thomas Keating and Brother David Steindl-Rast

Two of the world's most cherished Christian teachers discuss the role and relevance of the Church in the modern world, and how it was originally created in order to preserve the teachings of Christ--with the singular purpose of helping to bring people into the exact same relationship with God that Christ himself had, leading humanity into a space that is truly both "fully human and fully divine."

While much of this teaching has been lost in the fog of religious fundamentalism over the centuries, the spirit of this core intention continues to thrive in such beautiful souls as Father Thomas and Brother David, both of whom bring extraordinary humor, grace, and love to a very difficult (and controversial) topic.

The discussion uses some terminology from Spiral Dynamics, a system of measuring different value systems as they unfold in human consciousness. Here is a brief summary, including Ken Wilber's current names for some of these levels:

Beige: Archaic-instinctive—survivalistic/automatic/reflexological
* From 100,000 BC on
* "Express self to meet imperative physiological needs through instincts of Homo sapiens."

Purple (or Magenta): Animistic-tribalistic magical-animistic Tribal order
* From 50,000 BC on
* "Sacrifice to the ways of the elders and customs as one subsumed in group."

Red: Egocentric-exploitive power gods/dominionist
* From 7000 BC on
* "Express self (impulsively) for what self desires without guilt and to avoid shame."

Blue (or Amber): Absolutistic-obedience mythic order—purposeful/authoritarian
* From 3000 BC on
* "Sacrifice self for reward to come through obedience to rightful authority in purposeful Way."

Orange: Multiplistic-achievist scientific/strategic
* From 1000 AD on (as early as 600 AD according to Graves and Calhoun)
* "Express self (calculatedly) to reach goals and objectives without rousing the ire of important others."

Green: Relativistic-personalistic—communitarian/egalitarian
* From 1850 AD on (surged in early 20th century)
* "Sacrifice self interest now in order to gain acceptance and group harmony."

Yellow (or Teal): Systemic-integrative
* From 1950s on
* "Express self for what self desires, but to avoid harm to others so that all life, not just own life, will benefit."

Turquoise: Holistic
* From 1970s on
* A sacrifice self-interest system which is still forming

For more about Spiral Dynamics and how it relates to other measurements of Altitude, please see www.holons-news.com/altitudes