Integral "Third-Way" Politics

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While surveying the current American political landscape, it can be easy to feel as though the country is divided into two radically opposing populations: the Left and the Right.  When watching the speeches, interviews, and debates on either side of the fence, there is such an incredible difference between the tone, rhetoric, and messages coming from the two major political parties that many pundits have commented that it is as though we live in two utterly different Americas, with very little overlap between the two.  But the truth is, we do not live in two Americas, but in a single America composed of at least four or five different sets of values, all crammed together into a two-party political system that is becoming increasingly incapable of representing these wildly different perspectives.  Many are beginning to recognize this systemic inadequacy and are searching for a genuinely Integral “Third Way” politics—a new way to break free from the restrictions of such rigidly calcified party lines, transcending both sides of the partisan divide, including the very best of both parties, without resorting to the effete compromise of mere centrism that has been typical of the political “Third Way” to date.

In order to fully understand and appreciate the different sets of values and beliefs that make up the flesh and bones of America, we must allow ourselves to step back and take a developmental view of American culture—one which can make sense of the full spectrum of perspectives that are currently at play in the political arena, while also being able to account for America’s rich political history, as the oldest functioning democracy in the world. 

The premise of this sort of developmental view is simple: people evolve.  As people evolve, they move through a particular sequence of stages, a sequence that has been long studied by Western psychologists and has been found to be essentially universal to every culture in the world.  Taking a developmental view accounts for the “multiple intelligences” every human being possesses, including cognitive development and intelligence, values and beliefs, charisma and interpersonal skills, etc.  There is a long list of these different sorts of intelligences, each growing along its own particular developmental track, but there is enough congruence in their overall development that we can begin to take a meta-view of our growth and development by using a very simple concept known as “Altitude.”  Altitude is essentially a barometer of overall human growth, which uses the color spectrum to denote several major stages of development—each of which has slowly evolved over the course of human history, though still very much at play in today’s world:


"1st-Tier" values


Magenta (egocentric, magic): Magenta Altitude began about 50,000 years ago, and tends to be the home of egocentric drives, a magical worldview, and impulsiveness. It is expressed through magic/animism, kin-spirits, and such. Young children primarily operate with a magenta worldview. Magenta in any line of development is fundamental, or "square one" for any and all new tasks. Magenta emotions and cognition can be seen driving such cultural phenomena as superhero-themed comic books or movies.


Red (ego- to ethnocentric, egoic): The Red Altitude began about 10,000 years ago, and is the marker of egocentric drives based on power, where "might makes right," where aggression rules, and where there is a limited capacity to take the role of an "other." Red impulses are classically seen in grade school and early high school, where bullying, teasing, and the like are the norm. Red motivations can be seen culturally in Ultimate Fighting contests, which have no fixed rules (fixed rules come into being at the next Altitude, Amber), teenage rebellion and the movies that cater to it (The Fast and the Furious), gang dynamics (where the stronger rule the weaker), and the like.


Amber (ethnocentric, mythic): The Amber Altitude began about 5,000 years ago, and indicates a worldview that is traditionalist and mythic in nature—and mythic worldviews are almost always held as absolute (this stage of development is often called absolutistic). Instead of "might makes right," amber ethics are more oriented to the group, but one that extends only to "my" group. Grade school and high school kids usually exhibit amber motivations to "fit in." Amber ethics help to control the impulsiveness and narcissism of red. Culturally, amber worldviews can be seen in fundamentalism (my God is right no matter what); extreme patriotism (my country is right no matter what); and ethnocentrism (my people are right no matter what).


Orange (worldcentric, rational): The Orange Altitude began about 500 years ago, during the period known as the European Enlightenment.  In an orange worldview, the individual begins to move away from the amber conformity that reifies the views of one's religion, nation, or tribe. The orange worldview often begins to emerge in late high school, college, or adulthood. Culturally, the orange worldview realizes that "truth is not delivered; it is discovered," spurring the great advances of science and formal rationality. Orange ethics begin to embrace all people, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...." Ayn Rand's Objectivism, the US Bill of Rights, and many of the laws written to protect individual freedom all flow from an orange worldview.


Green (worldcentric, pluralistic): The Green Altitude began roughly 150 years ago, though it came into its fullest expression during the 1960’s.  Green worldviews are marked by pluralism, or the ability to see that there are multiple ways of seeing reality. If orange sees universal truths ("All men are created equal"), green sees multiple universal truths—different universals for different cultures. Green ethics continue, and radically broaden, the movement to embrace all people. A green statement might read, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are created equal, regardless of race, gender, class...." Green ethics have given birth to the civil rights, feminist, and gay rights movements, as well as environmentalism.

The green worldview's multiple perspectives give it room for greater compassion, idealism, and involvement, in its healthy form. Such qualities are seen by organizations such as the Sierra Club, Amnesty International, Union of Concerned Scientists, and Doctors Without Borders. In its unhealthy form green worldviews can lead to extreme relativism, where all beliefs are seen as relative and equally true, which can in turn lead to the nihilism, narcissism, irony, and meaninglessness exhibited by many of today's intellectuals, academics, and trend-setters... not to mention another "lost" generation of students.


"2nd-Tier" values


Teal (worldcentric to “kosmocentric,” integral): The Teal Altitude marks the beginning of an integral worldview, where pluralism and relativism are transcended and included into a more systematic whole. The transition from green to teal is also known as the transition from “1st-tier” values to “2nd-tier” values, the most immediate difference being the fact that each “1st-tier” value thinks it is the only truly correct value, while “2nd-tier” values recognize the importance of all preceding stages of development.  Thus, the teal worldview honors the insights of the green worldview, but places it into a larger context that allows for healthy hierarchies, and healthy value distinctions.

Perhaps most important, a teal worldview begins to see the process of development itself, acknowledging that each one of the previous stages (magenta through green) has an important role to play in the human experience. Teal consciousness sees that each of the previous stages reveals an important truth, and pulls them all together and integrates them without trying to change them to “be more like me,” and without resorting to extreme cultural relativism (“all are equal”). Teal worldviews do more than just see all points of view (that’s a green worldview)—it can see and honor them, but also critically evaluate them.


Turquoise (“kosmocentric,” integral): Turquoise is a mature integral view, one that sees not only healthy hierarchy but also the various quadrants of human knowledge, expression, and inquiry (at the minimum: I, we, and it). While teal worldviews tend to be secular, turquoise is the first to begin to integrate Spirit as a living force in the world (manifested through any or all of the 3 Faces of God: “I”—the “No self” or “witness” of Buddhism; “we/thou”—the “great other” of Christianity, Judaism, Hindusm, Islam, etc.; or “it”—the “Web of Life” seen in Taoism, Pantheism, etc.).


We can begin to see how the two major political parties have largely become amalgams of several of these stages.  In the early history of politics—during the French Revolution—the Right was largely comprised of Amber traditionalists, while the Left were mostly Orange modernists. But over 200 years later, the world has become considerably more complex, having experienced the emergence of an entirely new stage of political consciousness: namely Green pluralism, otherwise known as post-modernism, during the mid 20th century.  As such, Republicans now typically represent both Amber traditional values and “Wall Street” or “Ayn Rand” Orange values, while Democrats represent both Orange and Green forms of liberalism—two very different modes of liberalism that have thus far been extremely difficult for the Democratic party to unify.

If we truly want to begin creating some form of Integral “Third Way” politics, it is going to depend entirely upon leaders who have themselves achieved “2nd-tier” values, as it is only from the teal and turquoise stages of development that we can authentically honor and incorporate the entire spectrum of development.  To put it another way, we need a form of “enlightened leadership” to enact decisions unfettered by partisan politics, for the benefit of the whole, rather than pandering to the few. 

There is no sense in parsing words—what we are talking about here is a very real sort of elitism, a developmental elitism in which leaders more evolved than the majority of the populace are elected to office, for exactly that reason.  Of course, it is an “elitism to which everyone is invited,” meaning that anyone can continue to evolve to the highest reaches of human potential, despite the fact that so few do.  But merely mentioning the word “elitism” puts us on very dangerous ground in today’s political atmosphere, in which voters seem more interested in electing leaders they can “have a beer with” than ones with the moral, intellectual, and perspectival sophistication required to heal the tremendous cultural schisms that exist in America, and in the rest of the world.

Considering this spectrum of human development, it can be easy for liberals to assert that their values are “higher” or “more evolved” than those of typical conservatives—and in certain ways, they would be right.  However, one of the fatal flaws of “1st-tier” stages is the complete inability to include the values of other 1st-tier stages, which makes liberals arguably more developed than most conservatives, but equally partial in their own values.  As any genuine “Third Way” politics seeks to incorporate the very best of both parties, it must be inherently integral by nature, as only Integral consciousness can recognize the significance of development itself—and it is only by fully acknowledging human development, and accounting for the entire spectrum of consciousness in our conceptions of the world, that we can begin pulling together the many fundamental contributions that both the American Right and Left have made to the world.

Everyone knows about the difference between Democrat and Republican, Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative. But as ubiquitous as these distinctions is, no one has been able to give a theoretical explanation of what drives this split in a way that holds up to careful inspection—that is, until an Integral approach was applied to politics. Ken reveals what appears to be the key to a major piece of the puzzle: camps on the political Left attribute the fundamental cause of human suffering to external causes, whereas camps on the political Right attribute the fundamental cause of human suffering to internal causes.

For example, why are people homeless? Left: because they are downtrodden, they lack opportunities, they are victims of the system—all external forces. Right: because they have no work ethic, they have no family/religious values, no internalized sense of shame—all internal forces.  Of course, you can be an internalist or externalist at different altitudes of development, and historically these have changed over time, as we’ve already seen. But what hasn't changed throughout it all?  You guessed it: Right is still internalist, and Left is still externalist.  And if we hope to have any sort of comprehensive approach to politics and the problems of the world, it is absolutely essential that we include the revelations of both, without limiting ourselves to the tyranny of either.


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Ken looks like he's lost

Ken looks like he's lost weight - is he ok?

He has lost a little weight

He has lost a little weight since we've recorded him last (this video was fairly recent) but i assure you, he is doing absolutely fine! ^_^

I'll Start Here, and Expand Later:

http://integralpsychosis.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/an-integral-politic-pa...

The only ideas of an "integral politic" that I've seen are immensely dangerous; over the coming weeks I hope to expand and re-define it in a more politically and historically realistic manner.

Hey wdh3 - i responded to

Hey wdh3 - i responded to your commentary in your blog, but i will also paste it in here so everyone else can be a part of the food fight fun!

Hey, i am really glad you are challenging my written treatment of Integral Politics, and appreciate the opportunity to fill in some gaps in my own understanding of the subject.

One point that i do not quite understand–are you saying that there is no place for developmental elitism of any kind in politics? Do you agree that, when the founding fathers drafted the Constitution of the United States, they were themselves modern orange elitists, while the vast majority of the rest of the world was still at a traditional amber? In this sense, the founding fathers themselves said something along the lines of “let us enlightened minds lead you and your liberation will come.”

To me, the point is simple–the numerous crises of our world demand an integral response, which in turn demands integral leadership. For the past eight years, we have witnessed a largely mythic/traditionalist amber colonialist mindset from the American presidency. The problem is, this is obviously not the level of consciousness we want our global policies to be made from–but it is a level of consciousness that probably 60% of this country shares, which is why we have the political leaders we currently have. As Ken has mentioned many times, “one-person-one-vote” in a society that have predominantly traditional values means the banning of evolution in Kansas.

What, from your perspective, is the solution to this?

And if you believe i have somehow misapplied the Altitudes of development to political theory, how would you apply them yourself?

I'll Cut and Paste My Response Too!

Hi Corey, thanks for stopping over. I hope to be able to answer many (if not all) of these questions over then next few days- as I get the time I’ll continue this response/exploration of integral politics.
Briefly though, I most certainly do agree that the founding fathers of the U.S. were modern orange elitists in a time of Amber domination. And, at the time, that document was quite revolutionary (in one sense of the term) and certainly a tremendous leap forward for both the political ideals of this country as well as the world over. However, the U.S. Constitution (as well as the political, social, and personal/spiritual development of the drafters themselves) is in no way “perfect” or “integral” (i.e., Teal Altitude or higher). So I’m not looking to throw away that contribution, nor am I looking to elevate it (avoid the pre/trans fallacy). In hoping to pinpoint a more integral politic I think it’s important for us to recognize that, for all their efforts and success, the U.S. (Constitution, governmental system, values) is deeply flawed, imperfect, and limited. So pointing to their (relative) historical success may just have a relatively limited usefulness in finding the best way forward.
Again, I’ll try to expand upon what I mean over the coming week; but I really appreciate your interest and dialogue.

The Founders where NOT Orange!

They were Turquoise.

The expression of power in the world (bankers - Red) was, and remains the driving force of our world.

Until the bankers evolve, there will be no change in the systems of domination that control every aspect of our lives.

They will not evolve until they have to...when we individually take our power back...integrating it back where it "belongs".

These powerful Red humans do everything in their power to keep as many people as possible at Magenta.

At Turquoise the NEED to dominate your fellow humans falls away.

This was expressed by the Founders in their advocacy for Non-Interventionist policies - towards other Nations, to the States of the Union and to individual Citizens.

So my friends, until our Red eyes turn Indigo - enjoy the ride as we integrate our dark side.

Monetary Consistency

One way that we may effectively take our power back is to develop a currency which is consistent. Like a minute has 60 seconds, a foot is 12 inches & a pound is 16 ounces, a dollar needs to have the same integration. An attitude that the way we exchange our labor for goods & other services holds an unchanging value. The need for effective weights & measures in the way we transact business is essential. Integrating the shadowy monetary policy & exposing the darkness of deceptive monetary control to the clear light of day is a necessity. Additions to the foundational documents of the US must be effectively evaluated for their direct effects upon freedom and transcendent consciousness. Institutions based on fiat systems such as the federal reserve & the irs erode our capacity to retain the results of our labor and their vibration needs to be transformed.

Function first?

As I was pondering last night, it occurred to me that maybe a fundamental question to how to make an integrally informed politics, is to possibly ask the question what the purpose of the whole thing is.

is the purpose to handle conflicts on interest? As another author suggests, is it to create non-zero sum games of greater and greater complexity? What is it that we want a government/politics to do?

Do you agree that, when the

Do you agree that, when the founding fathers drafted the Constitution of the United States, they were themselves modern orange elitists, while the vast majority of the rest of the world was still at a traditional amber? In this sense, the founding fathers themselves said something along the lines of “let us enlightened minds lead you and your liberation will come.”

No. I think that what the founding fathers was saying was exactly the opposite. They said that if you followed them, they give the power back to you, for you to determine your own liberation. That's the basic idea of democracy. The founding fathers suggested a vision which appealed to the majority of people, a peoplist vision which suggested that everyone should be able to lead.

"For example, why are people

"For example, why are people homeless? Left: because they are downtrodden, they lack opportunities, they are victims of the system—all external forces. Right: because they have no work ethic, they have no family/religious values, no internalized sense of shame—all internal forces."

A nice approximation of the rigified party lines we have today, where they are both variations of statism, but far from the whole story of what drives people like Ron Paul to argue for real free markets (not pretenders like FTAs, not fiat currency, but the real deal with honest money).

For God's sake Ken, please learn some economics.

Ron Paul answers to Socialist "opression"

I think the analogy still holds strong in the case of Libertarian ideology. Libertarian ideology is as true internalist as it gets, I think (at least at an orange altitude). eg. The "real free market" Paul would advocate for would never punish or burden (ie tax) those who have demonstrated true production and innovation. "Allow them to flourish," right? Paul also asserts that fiat currency is responsible for the "hidden tax" that "eats away at the middle class." Again, he is opposing a system that is burdening those that have--for lack of better words--"established" themselves in accord to orange values. Don't get me wrong, Ron Paul is definitely a hero and the current Administration has opened the door for a revert back to Constitutional (a libertarian document) adherence. Which would be an improvement in many areas of government. So all i'm saying is that the internalist / externalist model still holds true.

Internalist/Externalist

No dispute with you Cartosys that what I interpret as Ron Pauls' view on "why people are homeless" has a strong internalist and individualist component. What I think is missed however is the important "externalist" and "collective" component.

The way in which state welfare unintentionally degrades family/organic community values for example, or the way fiat money/artificially low interest rates and government bailouts of various sorts play havok on the individual developing an ability to plan for the future and delay gratification/consumption, are actually very "externalist" narratives.

Right, except...

..... Ron Paul represents/espouses a libertarian-right perspective: Absolute (almost capital "A") individualism; wherein all of society is at the whim of the individuals who *happen* to have power (capital, resources, money, whatever you want to call it). Ron Paul does a great job at speaking to our individualist nature, but it's at the extreme expense of our social nature; he absolutely fails at anything integral, let alone "progressive", because he ignores an entire half of human nature.... just as Stalin and Lenin fail because they ignore an entire half of human nature (i.e., our individualistic nature).
That the American left has embarrassed Ron Paul to the degree that they do speaks volumes to how unhealthy the dominate green meme within America has grown.
Any thorough look at economics, at "real deal" money reveals the impossibility and the lie of the popular concept of "free markets". "Free markets" have never existed anywhere, at any time, and there's good reason to believe they never will and never should; certainly not as they are defined today in any sort of popular sense...

I had a thought just

I had a thought just yesterday

The idea of the free market is one of liberating a system, the market,
which is in contact with some magical invisble hand,
or working as a nearly intelligent self-regulating system for the best of all,
of liberating that system from what a human thinks is right, that means, from human influence.

Cutting the human world in two, and claiming that the one should not touch the other.

The interest of the self-regulation-structures of the market are seen as pure, while they are interpretations of those who in the same moment claim that influencing the economy is bad, strange, isnt it?

In my view, there is nothing more free and creative at the very edge of existence then humanity,
the holon theory supports that,

and the hope for self-regulation of blind(atheist) systems forcing people to accept one way of production only or to die has a hidden feat, like the older invisible hand conception it is based on the hope to fill the gap of the mythic god rationality has left, on christianism
I see that in their search for something regulating things outside of themselves, so to not be completely alone

Just a thought

You have misrepented Mr. Paul + libertarianism

a) You complain that with libertarianism, society is at the whims of individuals. However, this is also the case with conservatism and liberalism.
There is no other logical possibility!

b) Ron Paul does not ignore an entire half of human nature (the collective side).
First off, with collectivism there are two possibilities of action: voluntary and coercive.

Ron is almost complete in favor of voluntary collectivism and is thus almost entirely opposed to coercive collectivism--that is those done by the State (he does advocate that the State is a necessary evil that should have the functions of police, national defense, and courts).

c) You are bang on that a free-market has never existed. However, as the evolutionary impulse is towards greater freedom we are thus heading in the direction of Mr. Free-market!

"Ron Paul does a great job

"Ron Paul does a great job at speaking to our individualist nature, but it's at the extreme expense of our social nature"

I hear this all the time, but I think it is a misconception by those unable to look beyond preconceived labels of "Libertarian", "Conservative", "Republican" or "Pro-Free market" (generally Integral, with it's ready labelled level system, does tend to do this a lot I think).

From what I have come to understand of Ron Paul and his brand of Libertarian (beware, the word is used by many in many different ways, so listen to each one carefully) is saying, things like coercively extracting resources from individuals in the name of theoretical "social" greater goods are fine for achieving them for the short to medium term, but actually damages our "social nature" in the long term.

So for example, whereas pre-New Deal American private charity and friendly societies flourished, afterwards this important part of community cohesion and voluntary interaction/responsibility for the poor basically died. No action that is not voluntary can be considered moral, and Ron Paul recognises there is a karmic effect of ignoring that axiom.

I think a better way of putting it is that Ron Paul sees how authentic "social nature" has healthy "individualist nature" as its foundation. The fact is that mutual care is to the individual benefit, and people and communities do spontaneously come to that conclusion themselves, in the absence of coercion. You can run roughshod over justice of the latter for the benefit of the former for a while, but not sustainably. Over time, the legitimation of engineered "good social outcomes" also tends to pervert into a kind of centralised corporatist/statist power structure that easily highjacks whatever truly altrusitic motives lay underneath the original coercive centralised control of resources.

The monetary/fiat inflation issue is also one that is vital to understanding why "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer". I hope I can convince people here to read more about Ron Paul in his own words by highlighting the fact that it is corporations and the political elite that have everything to lose from his increasing influence, and virtually ALL of his campaign funding was in small amounts from individuals.

Finally, a careful reading of economics reveals that basically all major schools of thought are thoroughly positivist and fails to recognise the subjective/intersubjective nature of economic value - except the Austrian school that Ron Paul follows. If the Left has indeed "embarassed" Ron Paul's economics, it is certainly not through the use of an Integral economics that doesn't still conflate objective and subjective.

Why Free Market Competition serves Social Good

Hi again,

>Ron Paul does a great job at speaking to our individualist nature, but it's at the >extreme expense of our social nature; he absolutely fails at anything integral, let
>alone progressive", because he ignores an entire half of human nature....

>wherein all of society is at the whim of the individuals who *happen* to have power
>(capital, resources, money, whatever you want to call it)

Hmmm... this does give me some clues about a misunderstanding of what a "real deal" free markets means.

It would help to look up what Fred Kofman has to say about these issues - he would agree that it is precisely a "real" free market that prevents "all of society is at the whim of the individuals who *happen* to have power". A producer can be as rich as they want, but if they are failing to serve the consumers subjective needs and wants at a price they are willing to pay they will go down and lose those riches to the competition that is doing the job better and cheaper (i.e. using less resources to provide a good or service). At least this is true in a real free market.

In an environment where a central government has the power to violate individual property rights and restrict voluntary association at the point of a gun however, there is an escape clause for this rich producer - influence government to kill competition. This is best done in the guise of protecting the public interest, and in fact the history of government regulation of industry is always powerfully driven by those that "*happen* to have power" under the cover of "the greater good". The creation of the Federal Reserve, the government created cartel to end all cartels, is a prime example of this. It is important to see how the rise of corporate power and the growth of ever more intrusive government, obstensively acting in the public interest always, have gone hand in hand with one another for a long time.

This is also true of special group interests that are not privately run. For example, the reason that universities tend to be places so lacking in Eros (as Ken and Rabbi Gafni put it) is because by being shielding from innovative and effective competition by public funding and an absolutely archaic accreditation system, they can be. If we want to maintain the influence of those "that *happen* to have power" in academic circles, we should keep things as they are. Integral would have a much easier time spreading the good stuff it has if education was a much freer market.

Hillary Clinton? ...It's

Hillary Clinton?

...It's Barack Obama, geez.

No offense, but how can you comment on Hillary Clinton and not Barack?

....Hillary Clinton, oh man. *smacks self in the forehead* gesture.

Happiness

Ken mentions the impossiblity of convincing citizens of the U.S. to vote for 2nd tier leaders on the "because I'm smarter" principle. (very funny, by the way) So how CAN folks be persuaded?

Perhaps by going back to the ringing phrase "pursuit of happiness".

What is happiness at each of these developmental stages?
Well, to go to a different list of needs, we all have the desire a) to be right and b) to be liked/loved

We are not going to convince predominately orange thinkers that green are "right", or vice versa. Is there a way to convince both that they are loved/respected/honored?

On another thread, what is happiness on each of these levels? Part of that might be addressing the level of concern for each group. So for amber having genuine concern for "my tribe", for orange for "my rational/scientific truths" and for green "my pluralistic values".

being slightly obnoxious, a possible argument to amber might be "hey, we'll deal with those un-human weirdos out there so your tribe doesn't have to."

How to "persuade"?

"Persuade" is a term who's context is 1st Tier. What would a 2nd Tier term be for what we're trying to accomplish? Even "accomplish" can be considered dualistic and 1st Tier. So, what are we looking at here?

The American Revolution was Red method of persuasion to respect Orange identity. Many Revolutions were very similar. We had to stoop below our ideal for identity in order to get the thing done. In many ways, it could be a 1st Tier version of Skillful Means, because a nobler attitude about warfare emerged from that.

Can there be a developmentally higher version of that? What is the Orange version of "persuasion"? Is that the largest demographic in the US right now? If we used the method of persuasion which gains their respect to get it done, we can see if some nobler attitude about that emerges.

It seems to me that persuasion simply diminished as time went on as a means to ends. Persuasion is an exterior event, yes? I think an interior event has taken it's place. What is that? What can we call that? Cohen and gang have used the phrase "evolution from the inside out" to define this emergence. How would people who value interior emergence of change over exterior persuasion feel about using the exterior persuasion which 1st Tier thinkers respect?

I realize that we don't really value this stuff anymore, but it seems to be the pattern that the developmentally higher use some lower methodology as a means to bring about higher change.

What Ken is saying is that the platform, "...because we're just better, man." isn't really workable. But what if it is? What if that's all they understand and the only thing they will respect? I know it seems really ludicrous and childish to us. But what if that's what Skillful Means requires?

Another question is that emergence is an inexact event. I don't think counting heads is a good way to come up with the number of people who can deal with Integral Politics. I think Ken and all are actually not quite right about the "dominant mode of discourse" thing. I've written about this in other places too. I think individuals have different abilities to change depending on the amount of dissatisfaction they are having with life as it is. One guy can be orange and happy. Another can be orange and at his wit's end. The first guy will fight to retain orange. The second will have far less resistance and jump if offered a better way. How can we leverage that dissatisfaction? Are we even measuring it correctly? I don't think we are because we're not asking the right questions. What would better questions be? Who would fund the surveys?

Leveraging dissatisfaction is one of the main ways 1st Tier persuades -esp Orange. Ironically, Cohen is using this method to sell his interior change, and his folks seem to be okay with it, although I don't know how awake they are to it being a 1st Tier method. He doesn't seem to be able to stop when it stops working.

Can we use this method and have a nobler attitude about it than is usually transmitted by someone from a lower altitude? I don't just mean, "This is for your own good!" but something yet to emerge. Has anyone here had a verbal or physical fight which ended in a deeper level of respect and a higher sense of empowerment for all involved because they fought with a prudence that stopped while everyone could still win?

I think as the group evolves, it will create an environment within which new dissatisfactions will intimidate the old optimism. This is how it works. This incubator will cook us until it hurts too much to stay where we are. And then individuals will pop like pop-corn and blow the lid off. Group influences individuals then individuals influence group in an endless feedback loop. This works side to side as well as up and down the Quads.

Changing the economy to buy Green has been a 40-year process, but the lid only blew off in the last two years. Why? Because of the price per gallon of gas. It just hurts too much now to exploit the planet. What is hurting us bad enough to warrant buying a new political product?

...just some thoughts...

Hi Corey, you said: "As Ken

Hi Corey,

you said: "As Ken has mentioned many times, “one-person-one-vote” in a society that have predominantly traditional values means the banning of evolution in Kansas."

and then asked: "What, from your perspective, is the solution to this?"

I have no professionally informed political solution to that. The only solution I could imagine to work is to LET the masses transform themselves into higher stages of integral awareness. But as integral development is an ardous process and almost impossible to accomplish without someone guiding you and ensuring you haven't dropped your commitment to transformation, a bunch of pundits going public via Internet giving an orientation to the masses of those willing to transform and further some intelligent software-solution getting your commitment straight is required.

And this gets me to what II can do and I always thought was the most important thing for it to do: "produce", say, a dozen pundits like Ken, people offering the masses personal orientation and get their material online for free plus create some software that helps people comminting themselves to the practice they have chosen (by say, restricting the material not to those who can pay most but to those who do the practice on most regular basis and produce community content).

Becoming a pundit on your own is almost impossible, in most cases you end up in dilletantism. But imagine a place where several people having devoted their lives to punditry could do this thing together (virtually or somatically) in something like an integral monastery where you spend your day working, preparing presentations for the other pundits and meditating, working for the preservation of what the traditions have to say on the human potential.

Am I the only crazy person having expected II to create such a place? A place where Ken ain't the only pundit but where HE MAKES SURE he isn't the only one?

me greets you

Integral Micropolitics

I am currently revising an early version of a more coherent integral politics. It differs substantially from Wilber's approach, largely because I am trying to account for what I see as the latent flaws in that approach. It should be coming out in the December volume of the Integral Review, unless I get eaten alive by an octopus. It happens, you know.

Daniel Gustav Anderson

Does Ken ever talk about libertarianism?

Politics has been divorced from philosophy for too long--just look at where conservatism and liberalism have gotten us...

Neither of those two ideologies are rooted in a specific and exact philosophical principle.
However, there is an emerging ideology that is. Libertarianism.

It is rooted specifically on the non-aggression principle (NAP).
NAP= the initiation of coercion or violence on another individual is immoral.

Q: why does the integral community neglect this emerging philosophy so much?

Third Way

I'm naturally drawn to Integral Spirituality, and am only beginning to learn what it is. So, simply to express what other newcomers to the field may be thinking, I am responding to this notion of the "Third Way."

Quite frankly, it frightens me. The "Third Way" sounds a lot like the "Third Reich," and according to what Ken Wilber has said, does have a eugenics aspect to it as well. Now, I can guess that those experienced Integral folks who read this may laugh at my ignorance, yet, if for nothing other than PR purposes, my perspective deserves attention.

I long to have a leader who is wise, one who is enlightened even. Yet, as Wilber has said, directing the citizenry to this person and encouraging them to support her or him, is an extraordinarily difficult proposition. How does an egoless person (whom I'm assuming this enlightened one will be) ever end up in office? I just don't see such a person as seeking office and engaging in the requirements that aquiring such an office entail. Thus, I can't help but think our president, whoever he/she is, will always have an ego-driven agenda. The very nature of "winning" the office necessitates it.

The Next Part of My Response/Opinion

Part 2 of the narrative I began earlier (see above) is viewable here:
http://integralpsychosis.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/an-integral-politic-pa...

I will hopefully have the third (and final?) installment up by the end of the week.

third way in usa "democracy"

It seems like a joke to talk about a Third Way in USA "democracy"

I am afraid you are not so close, but so far...
(Just the bang and the clatter As an angel hits the ground)

Even though it's written in a foreign language, I propose you make a worthwhile effort and read this article

Thierry Meyssan interviewed by Sandro Cruz

in spanish:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article157134.html

in French:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article157135.html

On the other hand, I ask myself how to avoid the turning of functional "holoarchies" into dominion hierarchies…
I agree with Ken in the assumption that there is no way of knowing how a consciousness transformation DEVELOPS (occurs), but then AGAIN how can we be sure of who could coordinate or lead a holoarchy? It would be DISASTROUS to have someone reach power by achieving a 2nd tier only in the cognitive line of development !

I always have in mind these words from good old Kurt:

“But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America’s becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas.” (extract from "Cold Turkey", an article by K.V.)

Hasta la vista, folks!
Nicolás Novoa
(from Buenos Aires, Argentina… even so far away ;)

Who was more integral?

I disagree with Ken's notion that Hillary and Obama would not be that different. I know I may at risk at projecting, but I think Ken is giving Hillary a pass because she was familiar with his work. That does not necessarily mean she embodies an integral worldview. In my assessment, Obama is the most integral politician we have seen thus far on the presidential bid stage. Just because Bill, Al, and Hillary have read a book or two of Ken's, does not make them integral. Obama may have never heard of integral theory, but in some ways, he embodies more than most people who would put themselves at integral. That's not to say he's perfect, or completely whole by any stretch. I would prefer to see that Ken give credit to people who are integrating and internalizing the integral worldview, whether or not they have bought on the integral institute's mission or Ken's view. For integral to be truly a fledgling world structure, it has to transcend any individual or group, have many voices, and operate in post-Wilber world.

I can't believe he so

I can't believe he so blatantly overlooks obama. I guess Ken's really getting old, damn. Individuals are quick to learn, societies are slow; common sense. Of all people, I can't believe he's emphasizing such an 'end all be all' solution and how incompetent the candidates are, in HIS narrow view. This sounds more like a fearful old man, than a hopeful, consciously aware citizen.

I def. disagree with Ken, as quoted above:

"I disagree with Ken's notion that Hillary and Obama would not be that different. I know I may at risk at projecting, but I think Ken is giving Hillary a pass because she was familiar with his work. That does not necessarily mean she embodies an integral worldview. In my assessment, Obama is the most integral politician we have seen thus far on the presidential bid stage. Just because Bill, Al, and Hillary have read a book or two of Ken's, does not make them integral. Obama may have never heard of integral theory, but in some ways, he embodies more than most people who would put themselves at integral. That's not to say he's perfect, or completely whole by any stretch. I would prefer to see that Ken give credit to people who are integrating and internalizing the integral worldview, whether or not they have bought on the integral institute's mission or Ken's view. For integral to be truly a fledgling world structure, it has to transcend any individual or group, have many voices, and operate in post-Wilber world."

His approach is too Pie-In-The-Sky and not even a HOPEFUL pie in the sky, at that. It's more of a fear based synopsis of the political system in his view.

Integral, with Shadow Red, Politics

Patrick wrote:
>Libertarianism.. It is rooted specifically on the non-aggression principle (NAP).
>NAP= the initiation of coercion or violence on another individual is immoral.
>Q: why does the integral community neglect this emerging philosophy so much?

I think this is a great question.

My suggested answer is that there is a weak spot in the Red to Amber zone. Without completing the "quests" of the Red and Amber level, perhaps jumping to Orange and then up a little prematurely, the individual power to really think for oneself by being able to clearly differentiate and respect both the interests of the self and the other would be a little incomplete.

I mean that's the essence of what Amber had to offer to Red as a radical transcend-and-include movement - justice, mutual respect and social co-operation spontaneously arising out of the logic of best serving individual interest. If this development hasn't unfolded fully, even/especially in people who are otherwise at a much higher altitude, it could help to explain something that is increasingly puzzling to me: why almost everyone seems to accept the (anti)moral principle that "Thou shalt not steal, except by majority vote" .

Some question for any Integral students out there: what is your thinking on property rights in an "Integral politics"? If it is different to Classical Liberalism's emphasis on the importance of the defence of "Life, Liberty and Property", how and why?

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